Lisa Blue:

 

Hi, and welcome to Happy Hour Happy Patients. We are a healthcare innovation podcast that highlights ideas, trends, and innovations happening all around us in the healthcare system. I’m your host, Lisa Blue. Today we are lucky to have Susan Cordts joining us. She is a pioneer in the healthcare market and her list of accomplishments is quite impressive. One of the most exciting things about Susan is her drive and desire to serve populations that are often underserved. I’m excited to share her insights with all of you today through our conversation. Our show title Happy Hour Happy Patients references the concept that focusing on our own health and happiness has a direct positive impact on the patients we serve.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

We created this space to talk with our extraordinary guest and hopefully these conversations inspire and re-energize you while sharing the exciting ways that you could take with you to make your next work day and patient interaction a little bit better. We all know that change happens incrementally So sharing these ideas can move us all towards improvement together. Now let me introduce today’s guest. Susan provides the leadership and vision behind her company, Catalytic Health Partners, to pursue its mission of reshaping health care. Catalytic Health Partners focuses on helping individuals who otherwise may be underserved by more traditional care delivery. She is a serial entrepreneur and business executive recognized for leading passion driven High performance organizations that consciously make an indelible positive impact at every level at every level for all stakeholders. Susan has been a CEO and founder of multiple companies over the past 2 decades over the past 2 decades which have created new ways to provide solutions in healthcare through predictive analytics and proprietary technologies. Personally and professionally, she has a deep commitment to her community which entails volunteering, organizing, sponsoring community impact programs, one of which I’ve had the opportunity to participate in at every holiday season and it’s truly one of my favorite activities of the year.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Susan has also been recognized for her work, through a number of really impressive awards including the Athena award for fostering collaboration. In 2019, she received 3 different awards, Arizona Health leader of the year, another for outstanding Women in business from the Phoenix Business Journal, as well as a national recognition for a woman of inspiration. In 2022 she was also recognized as the Titan 100, so certainly, very impressive, background Susan, thank you so much for joining us today.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Thank you, Lisa. I’m very excited to be able to be here with you today and to Share what insights I may have and help to continue to grow our community.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Susan, I wanna start today’s Conversation, on a rather big topic. And while we’re not going to solve all the world’s problems in 1 conversation, especially in health care, I would love to hear from your perspective and that of the work that you and your team are doing everyday that what do you feel is the biggest opportunity within the healthcare system today?

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Well, that is a big question, Lisa, but I would say, you know, the biggest opportunity we have in healthcare today is to The focus is really on the people we are serving so what are the people in front of us need and to be present in that time and to spend that time present with them. I feel like health care has gone to a bunch of rapid transactions that often are trying to Meet boxes or meet requirements rather than listening and hearing the person in front of us and trying to discern what they truly need and how we can meet that need.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Yeah. I agree. You know, certainly both of us having come in from clinical experiences ourselves can, Can relate to that idea that, you know, often those admin exchanges can feel transactional, and so Bringing that focus back, certainly is a big opportunity for, for not only our patients, but for us. Right? For those of us that went into this work because we felt driven to work with and and serve our patients. So I’m interested in, you know, a little bit about the journey. What prompted you to start Catalytic Health Partners? You know, I I know you’ve had success in other endeavors and so I would like you to take us just a little bit on a journey And, you know, what what steps made you say this is something I really, want to do, and and what were some of the the challenges that you felt like moving in this direction would address in healthcare.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Yeah. It’s a really interesting question, Lisa. I think it’s an exciting one. Right? So I actually had worked at the same hospital for 20 years when I left there, as an executive thinking gosh, we kind of lost our way in healthcare It was all about focusing on how much money we could make versus what was really great for the person we were trying to serve so I left healthcare thinking I’d go off and do something else and be an entrepreneur, goodness knows, do something, and do other things And I was probably one of the few people that when the Affordable Care Act came along I was really excited as a healthcare professional to say, you You know, we’re actually gonna be held accountable for outcomes and for making a difference in people’s lives. I won’t say the Affordable Care Act actually has lived up to that in its entirety. It’s a thought process, but at least we began some steps I felt like in the right direction of saying, you know what? It is about the people we’re trying to and can we help them to get better and for us to focus and dedicate ourselves to that so, you know, I had a Transitional care company and, began a little bit of that journey but then realized that I had a bigger opportunity if I could do something along the lines that we do a catalytic where, you know, we take risk on our population. So we are a Full risk value based contracting organization that, you know, essentially says we believe in ourselves, right, and we believe in others in the system. So we’ll be at risk for those outcomes. We will help individuals who, really are high risk and high need To have improved lives and we really focus on that from a perspective of meeting social needs So those very basic needs of do I have enough food to eat? Do I have clothes on my back? Do I feel safe and secure? All the way through helping their mental and physical health. So I find this to be exciting and what I think is really focusing on the whole human.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

So I’ve loved doing this. It’s kind of my dream come true.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

I really love That description, that very holistic approach, right, as you just said for the whole person. And I think in health care even sometimes when we talk about that, there’s still challenges. You know, we both have worked, within the community and serve some of the same population. So I think we’re both very familiar with some of the, you know, what do social determinants of health look like, and how do they impact our patients? And so I’m wondering if you could, You know, give us maybe just some insight into, you know, what does that look like? Is that part of the onboarding when you are working with a new patient or member, how do you continue to incorporate that in their ongoing care? How long do patients or members stay with you? We’d love to hear more about what that looks like

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Absolutely, so I think it’s worth stating that we take care of people across the entire spectrum of healthcare So from seriously mentally ill to chronic co occurring, physical health conditions, whatever that might be, And we do all of our work in their home, so we’re not home health, we are more like a house call provider group I’d say, an integrated house call provider group who, shows up in from the intake if you wish to think of it that way depending upon your perspective, so our initial engagement with the member, Social determinants of health are part of that conversation we likewise have that as part of our conversation every single time we engage with members And there is an interesting component that when you bring it up first and you ask questions and focus on it, you get people to be more comfortable in sharing those things of you know, I actually don’t have enough food to eat And so you can meet that need, you can help. Coming at it from the perspective that I’m going to do something about it, so you’re not gonna just Tell me something and I go, oh, well, that’s terrible. I’d rather go, you know what? I hear you, and we can do something about that. So let’s figure out what we need to do. That makes that dialogue easier and makes it possible and comfortable, I guess I would say, To be part of the dialogue every time you engage with someone. And I think it also helps people realize that without those very basic things being met, That we know that it’s hard for them to move on in life. And, you know, I I really believe in Maslow’s Hierarchy, I think, you know, when our basic needs aren’t met, we don’t have that good solid foundation there for us to stand on that we actually can’t get to health Health is actually the top of the pyramid, this self actualization, so we don’t expect we’re gonna just, you know, balance up there and and stay there on the top of the pyramid Without a, you know, good foundation underneath us.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Yeah. I think you said a couple things that really stand out to me there. You know, One is the idea of prioritizing that conversation from the outset. Right? That is as important or more important to address, identify, and really address those needs. And I think giving The the person who is now feeling comfortable enough to share them the the safety and security to share those, right, to to the permission even to prioritize that that’s just as important as as some of the other things that we’re gonna talk about today, maybe a chronic condition, a chronic medical condition as well, so I think that is is really is really, remarkable. And, You know your points about, you know, one keeping it as part of the conversation because you’ve already prioritized it, you’ve already said this is important to us and we recognize it important to you. I think that’s a really great strategy. You know, the other is really realizing as human beings that We we can’t expect someone to jump to the top of that pyramid, and so I think foundationally, you have set up your Your team and and the patients that they serve, well by by making that part of the the fundamental understanding that if if we wanna help somebody reach here, we we have to put some, some structure beneath that.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

So I think that’s that. Really, those definitely stood out for me, so thank you for sharing that. So I would like to just pause a little bit. You’ve had such An exciting career, and, I think that’s one of the best things about, health care and and nursing specifically, all of the different areas that that we can go and not just in our own personal development, but the things that we can take from one area of our clinical experience and then Apply them in another area as as you’ve done multiple times in in your different entrepreneurial ventures. So as someone that has had Such success in your career, I’d love for you to share some of the challenges or lessons learned along the way. You know, many people that are Starting off in their careers, that can be very intimidating, or even someone who’s excited and has an idea they wanna start a company. What are some challenges or lessons learned that you can impart on them that, maybe saved them some times in their respective journey.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Yeah. I love that question. I think, one of the things that I would say 1st and foremost is learning to be very vulnerable. I think a lot of times, we believe that other people have been so much more successful than we are and they, you know, somehow have some magic when the reality is there’s no magic. It’s really being able to tell people this is what I need. I don’t know that. I actually have no idea, you know, so I can’t get help if I already act like I know, if I’ve already got a problem solved. Who can help me? I mean, you already know it all. Versus say I have no idea actually or you know I’m really needing help with that, in trying to put yourself out there as a Person who’s always trying to learn and not the person who needs to be the smartest person in the room who’s already figured the world out and, you know, it took me a while to to realize that, you could be successful without telling people That you already had it figured out because a lot of people do show up that way and give you that idea and I always considered I had no idea Other than I was willing to work hard enough to try to figure it out and then also realize for myself that those individuals who were telling me they already had it figured out Probably didn’t have it anymore figured out than I did.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

So I didn’t need to actually feel so stupid or feel like I didn’t know. It is okay. So I think that’s the first thing I would tell people, don’t worry about it. Again, nobody can help you solve something you’re not willing to share that you need solved and Everybody else is faking it so you don’t need to fake it. You might as well just be open and be, you know, true to who you are. So I think that’s one thing I would say. I think the other thing is, You know, really go out and find people who are positive and supportive of you. Not patting you on the back and telling you you’re awesome and, you know, everything you do is Right.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

That’s not it. People are willing to support and say, you know, you might wanna think about it this way. Oh, you said that, and boy, that that made me wonder. Oh, let me listen and hear. Everybody needs somebody to help us to get to the next level. We should surround ourselves with people who are gonna helpfully challenge us and yet be there supporting, working alongside us, pushing us along our journey To be successful.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Yeah. Very very well said. I think those are Really powerful knowledge that if, you know, those of you that are listening can hear that and can receive that. I remember as you were talking about, you know, there’s no magic, you know, when you’re starting out in a career, you do feel like somehow magically someone has figured this out and they haven’t muddled through some of those steps But, you know, especially when you’re currently meddling through them. And I remember still being in a clinical role, the chief nursing officer of the hospital. I remember looking at her through that lens of that she must somehow just be magical. Right? Like, how did she figure that out? She just knew so much stuff and so did I. I thought I was just sort of enamored by that and then, you know, through my career I’ve Tried to share some of the others, like, well, I I don’t know the answer to that either, but let’s figure that out.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

So let’s, you know, let’s get through this together. So and and, certainly, You can’t underestimate the power of a real supportive network, you know, be it personally, professionally, or Ideally, all of the above. And to your point, someone who is willing to say, did you think about it this way or even to give tough feedback at times. Right? That’s Just as important as the great parts too. It’s all great, actually. It’s maybe what I wanna say.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Well, I think you said something there, Lisa, that it shouldn’t be discounted, right? I mean the willingness as a leader, to to tell people I don’t know, Right and that I’m willing to learn this with you, because that’s what allows other people to grow and decide to maybe Follow an entrepreneurial journey or to have the the empowerment within them to see another opportunity and we all owe that to other people in in our lives, to share that, so, you know, I applaud you for recognizing that and sharing that with others that you’ve, had work to work with you.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Well thank you. So let’s shift back to the present day, not so much the journey. You know, we already talked about some of the aspects of what is the purpose of the work that you and your team, at Catalytic Health Partners are currently involved in. And, maybe if you could just tell us a little bit about, you know, what does that look like not only today, but where are you guys heading? Tell us about what you hope to see in the future, whatever time frame that future is.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Yeah, I think that’s another great question, right? So I would say, you know, as a team we work Every day, looking at what I call our core work and saying, and who else does that serve well? So we know that, you know, we really Do a great job for individuals who are very high risk. We are not such a great, you know, we’re not a A great house call provider group for people who are doing well that’s not us so we we understand that so how do we continue to grow to helping some of the developmentally disabled populations we’re working right now to see if We can apply our programming to a transitional age youth program, again understanding the intensity of care that might be needed and that is Provided by our team and aligns with our team an intensive in home therapy program, which again, helping individuals to make that acclimation To live within their ecosystem at home with intensive support such as our teams provide, looking at other ways that we Serve our community well and are able to collaborate and work alongside other providers, other health plans, in the community to ensure that those services are available well, someday we hope, to be able to move into other states So we’ll see. We continue to work on that. You know, our work is really focused on being a great partner to the members we serve, To the health plans we work with and to other providers in the community, we’re not here to replace or threaten anybody else. We’re here to work alongside them. And I know earlier you’d asked, like, how long is your program? Well, typically members are with us for about a year. And our whole goal from that 1 year of work is to help them to acclimate into being able to be well served by community based providers so how do we help them to develop some of those skills to get some of those foundational needs met So that they can start thriving and doing amazingly in the community with the traditional supports that are there. I mean, some of our members are on our services longer.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

It just kinda depends upon the specific program, the plan that we’re working with, and what the needs might be. So it’s really exciting to see what may be in front of us, right?

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Absolutely, and so you, I was gonna ask a question, but I think you’ve just answered it. So primarily you partner with payer organizations. Is that correct?

 

Susan Cordts:

 

That’s true. Okay. So we really work with health plans typically, you know, on individuals that they’ve identified that need a really, intensive additional to be successful.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Okay. And, you also tell us maybe a little bit about what that collaboration looks like between your team and other members of the health care community. And I’m saying that loosely because as we just talked about earlier, A lot of the basic care needs might not be defined as health care, but so give us an example of what does that collaboration look like.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Sure. So, again, we want to work with I’d say we’re like Switzerland. Right? We wanna work with everybody. We work with non profits to meet some of the social needs. We have sometimes funding inside of CHP That will allow us to do some of that as well. We certainly have fundraisers and other things that we do to support some of those nonprofits that we’re able to work So that’s always exciting, but when we work with the community based providers, again, we’re not here trying to take over. We’re seeing individuals in their home. I always like to think that we’re the eyes and ears of those providers to see what’s actually going on in the home And be able to share those insights back whether that’s a phone call to their medical assistant to talk to the provider themselves and a provider to provider conversation, Sending records, whatever that might be, to be able to share what we know and how we can all best collaborate and work together to support and help the member.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

We work very closely with the health plans. We have a minimum of monthly meetings with the health plans, each and every one of them. Again it’s a very collaborative conversation working through, you know, difficult situations that we’re needing extra help with, Sharing the amazing successes that many of our members have and, their stories of how they’ve been able to move forward Likewise, how can we combine resources and really come together as an integrated community to solve problems that Otherwise might not ever be exposed, to be honest. And, you know, I really feel like everybody doing this work is Truly wants to make a big difference for the people we are serving and so this just gives us all kinds of the context in which to do it And the opportunity to do it together. And we’re willing to do the heavy lifting, so, you know, if it’s like, well, we came up with this idea, Okay well we’re willing to go out and be the ones to execute that idea, with all of us, you know, kind of supporting together to fill in gaps as we need to.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

I think that’s a really exciting thing about the idea of entrepreneurship. Right? You can identify The need and address it, and and sometimes oftentimes with, you know, complex patient populations that take a degree of creativity and do it differently. And, the ability to not only identify what the need is, but to come up with a creative solution and Be willing to execute and follow-up on that and and take that ownership. I think that’s I think that’s really exciting and probably what fuels most of the people on your team to get to do that work. Right? That’s wonderful. I think your comment about the eyes and ears, you know, really can’t be overstated. It’s really so important, you know, when you think of the tradition as We talked about, as I introduced you, that traditional model of care. Well, there’s value to having that relationship with the provider that they see in the office.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

It’s a very small amount of time in a patient’s overall life, in a person’s overall life, right, not just patient. But, you know, how are you? How do you extend that out? How do you think, how do they interact with the world around them, and how can you make that safer and healthier for them? So I think there’s a lot of power in that, you know, as well as that collaboration that you described, so that’s Wonderful. As well as I really like the that model, the the approach that you described with sustainability that that, you know, you you really tried to come, plan to set them up with those skills and and work Towards those goals together, so they can be safe and healthy, and as safe and healthy as they can be in their current setting. I think that’s really, Really remarkable and, you know, while that might seem simple, it’s certainly not. So I certainly applaud you guys for doing that work not just in the acute phase, but really helping people continue to work towards their goals whatever their goals might be.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Absolutely. It is easy work. I always tell people what we do is not rocket science But it it takes a lot of dedication. Right? So

 

Lisa Blue:

 

No doubt about it. It’s one thing to say something. It’s another thing to execute the same thing. So. Absolutely. So I know that you are in this work as well as some of the other work you’ve done before, you have I’ve done a lot of work using technology and, and, like, the cross section of technology and health care. And, certainly, I would say that you were a pioneer in that you’re doing that a lot before. That was sort of more common in the health care setting as it is today.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

So I would be interested to hear from you because you have been, you know, such a, an early adopter and a visionary in that space. What Things what do you think are some of the most promising things in health care IT that are happening today or up and coming that people should be aware of?

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Well, I mean, I definitely feel like there are positive aspects that could be had from artificial intelligence. You know, I ran an artificial intelligence company for many years and so I feel like there is a lot of benefit that can come from that When used appropriately. Right? Certainly, there’s some inappropriate uses of everything. So, you know, focused appropriately, I feel like artificial intelligence will really, health healthcare I’ve always felt like there was a huge opportunity in healthcare to support providers No matter how experienced, no matter how smart you are or how remote and, distanced you are from, you know, maybe the mainstream, To be able to leverage all the information we have, all the data we’ve collected on the individuals we are serving And to say, hey, when you look across everything there is a big database of, options to look against and say this might be what’s actually wrong with this person, and promote, I’ll take thorough diagnosing, irrespective of where you’re at. So I think that’s pretty exciting, a pretty exciting opportunity. I also feel like in technology we have evolved to a place where we could integrate a number of datasets to really support, again that more integrated holistic view of humans and how we can best meet their needs where we typically leverage that data in silos which really limits our insights and capabilities I think, we definitely have the capability to do that on a broader scope. Certainly, there are HIPAA limitations and other things that might cause the need to think through those and to think through the risks, but the potential is there and I think there is some potential to do some great things To make a big difference, in that space So I think that’s really important I think honestly we don’t even leverage simple technologies well Sometimes and I always find that baffling. Right? It’s like I’m in fact, I was just having a phone conversation with somebody the other day and I said, you know, if we just use the phone a little more often I think we might be ahead of the game.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

And they’re like, what do you mean by that? And I was like, well, We’re quick to send somebody a text or an email about what we want, but if we just pick up a phone and call them, we might have the problem solved. And it is interesting to see that, sometimes. And then I think on the Converse side, right, Oh, I’m gonna try to call all the members. I’m gonna try to do this and that and just say, well, okay. But how many times have you tried that phone call? Lots. Okay. Well, did you send them a text message? Did you, you know, do something that might be a different channel? No. This is The only way we can do it.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

So I do think sometimes we get a little stuck, and it can only be one way when the reality is We have a breadth of things that we could already do if we thought about our processes from the outside and thought about the people we’re trying to engage with and then go how would they like to receive something from us? And realizing that I’ll say a multi channeled approach Doesn’t have to be hard. We have tons of technology out there that supports that today, and that technology doesn’t have to be horribly expensive for you to accomplish that. I think it is interesting sometimes to see how in spite of all we have in front of us, how little we use. Mhmm.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

I think, you know, your point of it’s it’s easy for people to get stuck. Right? This is the way. Right? I’m gonna work through this list and You know, sort of check it off, and I’ve left messages. And, you know, they’re with all things, there’s a middle ground. Right? And so what works for 1 Might not work for others. And so, you know, using technology in a way to, you know, create some efficiencies, but also recognizing that There may be times that I’m gonna stop and I’m gonna have this conversation, this deeper conversation with a patient. You know, it’s one of the things that we often say in our work That this is not ever technology is not ever intended to replace human interaction. Quite the contrary.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

But if, you know, a lion’s share of patients in a particular group maybe just needed a reminder or needed a little bit more guidance in what to do next, But there’s a small segment of patients that do need a lot of additional support and questions answered. Now I can focus on those because I’ve been able to use technology to, You know, address this larger group, so I think certainly there is always a middle ground.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Opportunity. Right? Options.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Right, for sure. So, Susan, as we wrap up our conversation today I would love for you to share with listeners. What is the best way to connect with you if they’re interested in learning more about Catalytic Health Partners, or having a conversation with you? How should they contact you?

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Well, one of the best ways is, we have a great website of chpcares.com, and so they can learn all about what we do and all of our various programs that we have. They can certainly email me at my email address Which is [email protected]. I have a LinkedIn profile, so under my name, of Susan Cordts and would love to to hear from them and engage with them, share with them, Whatever I might know or whatever they may wish to to chat about.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

That sounds great. And listeners, we’ll have all of that information in the show notes below so you can access that to contact Susan directly. So today, let’s end our conversation. You noticed this earlier, so I’m excited to hear what comes to mind. If you can share, just 1 story that makes you feel Excited. You know, I know that this, I’m sure, changes over time with what you have heard most recently, but what makes you most excited when you hear about the Impact of a patient or or overall proud of the work that you and your team are doing. If you could share that with us.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Absolutely. So first I’d say, you know, the world must understand we have an absolutely amazing team of People throughout the state of Arizona doing amazing work, you know, we always lead with the heart at Catalytic Health Partners and we have a team with Hearts of gold. But I think one, you know, story that I’ll share that, you know, I think it is quite remarkable, about the work of our team, and I’ll, my course won’t share any names, but relate that we have an individual that we have served, in the past and he, came to us with many behavioral health as well as physical health issues having a really difficult time And, really needing, you know, tons of support, one of those diagnoses being cancer. So If you can only begin to imagine, you put all of that together, unable to speak, due to his conditions, so, you know, Like, you know, just making communication hard. Right? This individual worked with our team, and the Community based providers Boy, it was a huge collaborative effort and today is running his own business and has the pieces together to make things happen. So, you know, it is amazing to believe you know, and I think the Core of that, honestly, Lisa, is to believe in the potential of humans. Human beings have tons of potential but it all starts with us believing in them. So I care enough about you that I’m willing to listen and engage and I believe you can do it. Instead of the pessimistic view that some people have of, you’ll never be able to do that Or, you know, how do you think you’re going to accomplish that? But rather just say, no, I hear you.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

It’s what you wanna do. I think you can do it. And how can I help? So I really, you know, applaud that individual for all the effort he, his daughter, his family put in trying to make this a reality, overcoming amazing And our team for being there every single day working very hard alongside him to make it real.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

That’s It’s a really wonderful story, a great way to wrap up our conversation today. I certainly got chills as you were, talking about that and that really remarkable. So thank you so much for sharing that and the work of your team and the amazing things they’re doing, and thank you for being Such an amazing leader in allowing them to do that work.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Well, thank you, Lisa. It’s my pleasure.

 

Lisa Blue:

 

Thank you so much for spending some time with us this afternoon. It’s been such a pleasure to learn more about what you guys do day in and day out at Catalytic Health partners and how wonderful that work is. I applaud all of you, and I thank you for sharing with us and our listeners today. Thank you, Susan.

 

Susan Cordts:

 

Thank you, Lisa. I appreciate you